Curse

*lemming* · Jan 12, 2010, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Finally, you all know that we do not change skills before the MAT.

Simath · Jan 12, 2010, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Secondly, skill balance (like many aspects of game design) is an iterative process, and one where both the Test Krewe and the Live Team are learning, streamlining, and improving on, in terms of how best to deliver and take in feedback.

So you're finally admitting that after all these years you still have absolutely no clue what you are doing. At least you're honest...a fraction of the time.

Miscreant_Moon · Jan 12, 2010, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Let's just call it what it is everyone....

Vaporware

ArenaNet's next skill update has crossed into the realm of vaporware. I'll go ahead and explain vaporware.

Vaporware: "The term is usually applied to products updates which fail to emerge after having well-exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product update, or when the release date is delayed repeatedly without adequate evidence of specific unforeseen hurdles that cause these delays. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of an product update, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product update development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product update, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products Updates with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware."

Fay Vert · Jan 12, 2010, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

What a joke.

lol if you think this is going to be monumental

They will nerf 3 skills, buff another 2 skills that will STILL be terrible, and call it a day

You forgot the very minor changes to 20 completely pointless skills.

dancing gnome · Jan 12, 2010, 09:38 PM // 21:38

I understand why it didn't come out in December, but it was late in Decemeber. It was late in November. Why is Regina explaining using events in December/January for why a balance is late when it was late before then? If I take a two weeks off of work and am sick for three days, I can't get way with the two weeks simply because I got sick at the end.

Hopefully people realise they are nerfing SF and 600/smite because solo farming and dungeon running kills pugs. They want to make the game more accessible to everyone to play properly, not solo.

UnChosen · Jan 12, 2010, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

I understand why it didn't come out in December, but it was late in Decemeber. It was late in November. Why is Regina explaining using events in December/January for why a balance is late when it was late before then? If I take a two weeks off of work and am sick for three days, I can't get way with the two weeks simply because I got sick at the end.

Hopefully people realise they are nerfing SF and 600/smite because solo farming and dungeon running kills pugs. They want to make the game more accessible to everyone to play properly, not solo.

Unbalanced monsters, crappy reward/work ratio, underpowered classes, pug unfriendly area design, etc. kills pugs...NOT SF nor 600/smite. Once they nerf those two people would just think that UW group play is not worth it and just farm solo with the good old 55 or War/Derv/Ele tank builds.

Even if they nerf every single farming skills in the game people would still "solo"...with H/h. No incentives for group play in a game where teamwork is required = fail. Even korean MMO that has a huge focus on single player grinding has more group incentives than GW.

Motoko · Jan 12, 2010, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

I concur with Lemming.

One of the most frustrating things I have experienced while preparing for mAT's is the fact that a whole month of practice would get shat on because skills would get changed a week before the mAT and it would be a matter of who could figure out the most broken piece of sht build in that time and get good at it.

Wuhy · Jan 12, 2010, 10:42 PM // 22:42

come oooooon.... are you kidding me? this is way past fail, release it already, make it break the game, the playerbase will test it, you will fix it(not), NOONE gives a crap just do something.... seriously.. if the game was any balanced & serious, I'd understand you wanting to give us a nice balanced awesome update but since it isn't, it won't make much of a difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

So you're finally admitting that after all these years you still have absolutely no clue what you are doing. At least you're honest...a fraction of the time.

SPOT ON.

Axeman002 · Jan 12, 2010, 10:47 PM // 22:47

i LOL'd at this...i now feel an urge to learn dayway i didnt bother before as i thought a nerf was due ... but really we will get an excuse for 6 months then they will announce Beta release to distract you and you will never get that SF nerf you all so long for lol

GG anet thanks for keeping the game fun for me!

Karate Jesus · Jan 12, 2010, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

/sigh. So many lies in Regina's 1 post....

I'm so tired of the lies of this company. 3 of my friends quit this week. 2 of them have played since release. Maybe I should finally join them.

Hell, I'm having more fun with CoD MW2 anyway, even if the servers are shit (still better than Anet's).

I can't believe that a skill balance has pissed me off this much. I guess it was just the culmination of it all, but damn it.....I loved this game.....and Regina, your company's lies, broken promises, debunk "new ways of doing things", and terrible game support have finally broken me.

Congrats, you've managed to do what I thought you'd never do.

Polgara Val · Jan 12, 2010, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Two things I would like to point out.

Firstly, Regina herself is merely relaying what the company is telling her to say, some of you have aimed the blame at her specifically, which essentially is wrong. Keep in mind as well that Regina herself cant give her personal opinion publicly which will in turn look bad on her and risks losing or getting into trouble with her bosses. Despite some of the obvious mistakes (mAT), in her last response on this thread. Dont blame the messenger.

Secondly, I dont blame the people on here with the way there reacting about this update, its one thing about it being delayed for almost half a year. Its quite another when they gave there word they would produce the update in time. Hence why a lot of players are feeling a little aggrieved about the situation for this update, quite simply Anet next time when you give your word on a specified date for the update simply dont say or give your word on it and let it come when its ready.

Pol

Apok Omen · Jan 12, 2010, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Uhh, you're speaking as if the Test Krewe has the final word or something.

The way I understand it, the Live team comes up with the skill balance ideas, bounces it off the Test Krewe, lets them tinker around with the skills in actual play, then give their feedback as to what could be better, what is potentially OP about the skills, ect.

In all, the Live Team still has the final say, and Frankly, with the amount of people on the team, and them working on an entirely new game along with security issues and regular stuff over the years, it's no surprise that the team has become detached from the current state of the game.

So naturally, since they aren't gods and can to 1000 things at once, they got a crew together that actually knows more about the current state of the game to help bounce advise.

Time can only tell how well the Test Krewe will effect balances, but I like the fact that Anet can admit their flaws and work around them.

That being said, I think there's been way more then enough time here with the skills. 5+ month gap between skill balances are absolutely ridiculous, and yet another delay (which is what I assume from Regina's post) is not a good sign.

The Test Krewe was made for one reason and one reason only: to assure quality updates. I don't give a shit if it takes them 2 whole years to perfectly balance this game. What I would love is to not be kept in the dark about things. On previous occasions, they have given us a preview of what to expect from the updates, and once we gave them our professional and experienced views and opinions on them, they were changed accordingly.

For example, do you remember what Disarm was going to be like before we put our word in? Imagine an easy Blackout that any char could use without any spec into Strength and would shit all over Adrenaline warriors. We prevented that from ever happening.

I'm not asking for quick and perfect skill updates at all, just frequent updates on what they will look like before and after testing. Why? Because it shows many things:

1)That they are actually working diligently on them.
2)They care enough about their customers to give them a heads up.
3)They are accepting constructive criticism.
4)They are taking the issue seriously.

Trust me, nothing bad will happen from this idea. Some people believe that it will give everyone a head start on builds, but how is that any different from now? It takes an hour, or at the very most a day, for someone with half a brain to come up with a build after an update. And even if the build is only known to a select few before others, then the glorious obs mode will show it to everyone, who will then put it up on pvxwiki. And the cycle continues.

Giga_Gaia · Jan 12, 2010, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Judging by Regina's post I'm gonna make a hard guess that there won't be a skill update this month? lol...

I think we were all kidding ourselves if we really did expect one to happen so soon after the holidays and wintersday. I guess I'm guilty of that as well.

Karate Jesus · Jan 12, 2010, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

Judging by Regina's post I'm gonna make a hard guess that there won't be a skill update this month? lol...

I think we were all kidding ourselves if we really did expect one to happen so soon after the holidays and wintersday. I guess I'm guilty of that as well.

Even considering that the update is 4 months late (soon to be 5 months) and that we were told it would be in January last month?

Nah, bro.

End · Jan 12, 2010, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Even considering that the update is 4 months late (soon to be 5 months) and that we were told it would be in January last month?

Nah, bro.

considering it's anet...and seeing as though the extra "security feature" was my christmas present...I am expect a skill balance for my birthday...and just another 8 months...I just hope they get it done in time...

jiggles · Jan 12, 2010, 11:56 PM // 23:56

So this thread is pretty much this right?

Anet doesn't change something, they're bad

Anet changes something, but it isn't what 60% of the community wanted so them 60% whine about it, obviously Anet are bad

Anet thinks, lets invite a small portion of the GW populace to help us improve balances in the communitys mind, but adding extra time to the process. Anet are bad

Anet disbands the test krewe and goes back to the old way of doing things. Anet are bad.

It's a lose/lose for anet with 99% of this thread. I would also like to note that in all the time gw has been out, not once has it ever been balanced. This is because true balance in GW is imprcatical, and impossible. And if by magic it was achieved, 100% of the playerbase (no exceptions) would complain about how shit gw is and how they have to run the same crap as everyone else. And how things were so much better when one team build wasn't exactly the same as another team build.

tl;dr Shut up, and stop complaining.

Karate Jesus · Jan 13, 2010, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

So this thread is pretty much this right?

Anet doesn't change something, they're bad

Anet changes something, but it isn't what 60% of the community wanted so them 60% whine about it, obviously Anet are bad

Anet thinks, lets invite a small portion of the GW populace to help us improve balances in the communitys mind, but adding extra time to the process. Anet are bad

Anet disbands the test krewe and goes back to the old way of doing things. Anet are bad.

It's a lose/lose for anet with 99% of this thread. I would also like to note that in all the time gw has been out, not once has it ever been balanced. This is because true balance in GW is imprcatical, and impossible. And if by magic it was achieved, 100% of the playerbase (no exceptions) would complain about how shit gw is and how they have to run the same crap as everyone else. And how things were so much better when one team build wasn't exactly the same as another team build.

tl;dr Shut up, and stop complaining.

I think you misunderstood the thread. We all just want a skill balance. One that was promised to be delivered 4 months ago, and last month we were informed it would be this month. However, this month we were told it would be delayed.

I'd think that our bitching would be understandable.

jiggles · Jan 13, 2010, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

I think you misunderstood the thread. We all just want a skill balance. One that was promised to be delivered 4 months ago, and last month we were informed it would be this month. However, this month we were told it would be delayed.

I'd think that our bitching would be understandable.

When this skill balance arrives, you will all thank anet, and apologise that you were frustrated yes?

No, 60% of you will be right back here in the skill updates thread complaining about how bad anet are for nerfing their favorite skill. And the pvp'ers will be there complaining about how shit the new meta is going to be. Also, bitching never got anybody anywhere.

Tearz1993 · Jan 13, 2010, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

I would also like to note that in all the time gw has been out, not once has it ever been balanced.

Just want to point out, there's a huge difference between people being upset over an update because it doesn't make the game balanced, and people being upset over an update because it makes things 10 times worse.

Giga_Gaia · Jan 13, 2010, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Even considering that the update is 4 months late (soon to be 5 months) and that we were told it would be in January last month?

Nah, bro.

Well... now that I re-read Reggie's journal (the OP), she actually never did specify when the update was going to be, just that it wasn't going to be in December. Pretty clever, I suppose.